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 Resistances, some thoughts

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Tikk



Posts : 23
Join date : 2009-03-06

PostSubject: Resistances, some thoughts   Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:51 pm

We discussed the possbility of removing cold/fire/energy/poison resistances from armor in addition to removing them as damage properties on wepons.

This would basicly be a cheap knockaround to the simple system that we had during T2A I think. Wepons would only do one type of damage (physical) and armor would have the physical resistance attribute (somewhat similiar to the old AR then).

I love this idea. It looks simple and easy. Yet... I fear the implications will be tough. Using the standard RunUO setup, these are some things we need to change in the scripts (on the top of my head).

Issues
1. Monster damages
Any creep that does something else than 100% physical damage will kick but! A fire elemental with 100% fire damage will destroy you.
Making all these alterations will take time

2. Magic Spells
We said magic would be rare, very very rare. But if I am not mistaken spells do elemental damage (fire,cold,poison,energy) and will in this case be VERY powerfull against armor that cant mitigate it. In other words, you will be defenseless against magic. Spellcasting mobs (not to speak about players) will utterly destroy you.

3. Crafting system

With only one type of resistance avaliable, the need for the diffrent ore types sort of vanishes (save for coloring purposes). Let me explain:
You can have 6 pieces of armor + a sheild. Currently, the Cap on resistance is 70. That means 70/7 items is a max of 10 resistance per piece. Anything higher will, well... make it unnesesary to wear a full suit. That might be a cool side effect.

Then we consider the diffrent armor types.
Leather, Studded, Ringmail, Chainmail and Plate.

If we then go through with the idea that Plate offers better protection than leather, it would look something like this. (just an example! Smile )

Full suits (6 pieces)
Leather: 30 or 5 a piece
Studded: 40 or 6,66 a piece (how do we do this?)
Ringmain: 50 or 8,33 a piece
Chainmail: 60 or 10 a piece
Plate: 70 or 11,66 a piece

Its a real mess to work out...
How do we add in the effect of diffrent ores/leathers into this? Its almost impossible.. What does the new ores do? Add durability? More physical resistance? If so, how?

4. Magic resist and the old system
What it boils down to is the fact that the system was completly diffrent before the introduction of resistances. Back then, when we had AR and only one type of damage, the skill Magic Resist actuly had a use.
It was the skill that mitigated spell damage! After the change, it only adds some useless "base resistance" of 40 in every resistance type at GM.


Summary
Basicly... I think its a bad idea to scrap the resistance system. It is not perfect, no. But modding it might serve our purposes better than a complete rewrite. Such an endeavour will mist likley take a LOT of time into consideration giving us nothing but a small modification.

I propose we keep resistances ingame. We can playtest some mods to it, such as implementations of diffrent quality armor/types (plate vs chail etc).
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Billpete002



Posts : 21
Join date : 2009-03-06

PostSubject: Re: Resistances, some thoughts   Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:52 am

Tikk wrote:
We discussed the possbility of removing cold/fire/energy/poison resistances from armor in addition to removing them as damage properties on wepons.

This would basicly be a cheap knockaround to the simple system that we had during T2A I think. Wepons would only do one type of damage (physical) and armor would have the physical resistance attribute (somewhat similiar to the old AR then).

I love this idea. It looks simple and easy. Yet... I fear the implications will be tough. Using the standard RunUO setup, these are some things we need to change in the scripts (on the top of my head).

*nods* this will be a great system and makes additional items (items we create or add when technological events happen) very easy to handle.

Tikk wrote:

Issues
1. Monster damages
Any creep that does something else than 100% physical damage will kick but! A fire elemental with 100% fire damage will destroy you.
Making all these alterations will take time

2. Magic Spells
We said magic would be rare, very very rare. But if I am not mistaken spells do elemental damage (fire,cold,poison,energy) and will in this case be VERY powerfull against armor that cant mitigate it. In other words, you will be defenseless against magic. Spellcasting mobs (not to speak about players) will utterly destroy you.


This might be a good thing - perhaps fire elementals and liches etc. will be VERY hard and need groups of players - we thus create a quality>quantity. For instance on grim a caster can clear a room of liches easily - and players with spell reduction can with healing and pots. Why not make spell casting monsters rare or even "bosses" instead of having whole spawns of fire elementals/liches/<insert crazy caster here> you have 1 or maybe 2 in a spawn - the challenge would still be there just fewer monsters to manage (and in server terms less lag!)

Tikk wrote:

3. Crafting system

With only one type of resistance avaliable, the need for the diffrent ore types sort of vanishes (save for coloring purposes). Let me explain:
You can have 6 pieces of armor + a sheild. Currently, the Cap on resistance is 70. That means 70/7 items is a max of 10 resistance per piece. Anything higher will, well... make it unnesesary to wear a full suit. That might be a cool side effect.

I agree but we need to make blacksmithing interesting and worthwhile - otherwise players will just hunt NPCs with chain/leather/etc. - This may be where exceptional armor comes in to play which can offer a bonus to physical resist.

Tikk wrote:

Then we consider the diffrent armor types.
Leather, Studded, Ringmail, Chainmail and Plate.

If we then go through with the idea that Plate offers better protection than leather, it would look something like this. (just an example! Smile )

Full suits (6 pieces)
Leather: 30 or 5 a piece
Studded: 40 or 6,66 a piece (how do we do this?)
Ringmain: 50 or 8,33 a piece
Chainmail: 60 or 10 a piece
Plate: 70 or 11,66 a piece

Its a real mess to work out...
How do we add in the effect of diffrent ores/leathers into this? Its almost impossible.. What does the new ores do? Add durability? More physical resistance? If so, how?

I wouldn't make each armor piece add the same amount of armor, a breast plate or chain mail tunic offers WAY more protection than a helm. and if chain mail for our shard is a "end game" armor till platemail appears (if we start 600/700ad plate doesn't appear till 1100/1200 and even then its not full sets!)

If armors decrease dex per piece like my previous suggestion then we can have exceptional armor decrease less dex, and/or increased durability. Colored armor once again is odd.. It makes sense for platemail (they did paint plate) but not so much for early armors... We could just delete the ores till later... *shrugs* I am at a loss for it.

As for different leathers - these could offer better durability/less dex reduction when exceptional and for different leather types we could figure something out when we decide what to do with plate.

Tikk wrote:

4. Magic resist and the old system
What it boils down to is the fact that the system was completly diffrent before the introduction of resistances. Back then, when we had AR and only one type of damage, the skill Magic Resist actuly had a use.
It was the skill that mitigated spell damage! After the change, it only adds some useless "base resistance" of 40 in every resistance type at GM.

But in our server this would be a vital skill - which we can make skill gains very hard to achieve. So someone with spell resist gm gets 40% reduction in fire? that's pretty sick and would make veterans very handy when fighting bosses or spell casters (druids/witches/liches etc.) I think with our system this skill now has a very good use: saving your ass if you run into a caster!

Tikk wrote:

Summary
Basicly... I think its a bad idea to scrap the resistance system. It is not perfect, no. But modding it might serve our purposes better than a complete rewrite. Such an endeavour will mist likley take a LOT of time into consideration giving us nothing but a small modification.

I propose we keep resistances ingame. We can playtest some mods to it, such as implementations of diffrent quality armor/types (plate vs chail etc).

I think the only thing that cannot be answered by resists is colored armor/leather... This may be where we can use it. Perhaps shadow ore offers a tiny bonus to poison resist per piece (no this armor offers X, Y, Z per piece) each set gives a bonus to 1 resist - so if you have full shadow chain you have a lets say 10% change to resist poison - tack on GM spell resist that's a 50% - I think this may be 1 usage of colored armor/leather.
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Tikk



Posts : 23
Join date : 2009-03-06

PostSubject: Re: Resistances, some thoughts   Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:04 pm

All good points mate.

Im still a bit worried about implementions.
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