IRC log 19/3-09

First of all, this might seem useless... Its way to unstructured, I know. Random babble on IRC sure. But I am making a test run here. We have had some sweet ideas thrown around over at the IRC chanel, most of them never make it into writing.

So this is an attempt to solidify these ramblings. West, it might be a good idea, if this catches on, to create a separate forum for these logs.

The idea is, and I hope you guys agree, it might be worth looking through the brainstorming we have. The issue ofcause remains. Someone has to condense the logs into a shorter version, naturaly posted here in "general discussion".

I would urge everyone who posts an IRC chat log to edit out any babble. We are looking for the ideas

<Tikk|AFK> I've read your last post about "regions etc"
<Skar> once we get the map formed and in working order in the shard we can all hop on and put in spawns
<Tikk|AFK> could use some more input
<Skar> link?
<Skar> its been awhile
<Skar> so i dont remember
<Skar> ^-^
<Tikk|AFK> First thing will be to build houses/decorate. Spawns will take atleast 2 months before we can begin
<Tikk|AFK> https://west.forumotion.com/the-world-map-f1/brainstorm-regions-locations-landmarks-t4.htm
<Skar> yeah buildings take no time with CenterED
<Tikk|AFK> remember, we want them to kick ass
<Tikk|AFK> Got a problem with the elder races...
<Skar> what's that?
<Tikk|AFK> No idea where to place their "start locs"
<Tikk|AFK> Tbh... the trolls are the easiest.. can just give them any spot anywhere
<Tikk|AFK> dwarves and elves are a bit harder
<Skar> well if we make a teleporter that requires a skill or an item (like Wind requiring 80 magery to enter)
<Tikk|AFK> Dwarves would fit best deeper into the "west" continent" (the sweden continent)
<Skar> we can make the elven city off map
<Tikk|AFK> thats the idea
<Tikk|AFK> but the entrance..
<Skar> we hide it in a deep forest
<Skar> and I mean really hide it
<Skar> like if you are not an elf
<Skar> you wouldnt know where the hell it was
<Tikk|AFK> Personaly, id like to keep elven and dwarf "entrance" outside the release map
<Tikk|AFK> deeper into the continent
<Skar> well the neat thing with the dwarf entrance is it is "bared" shut
* Tikk|AFK nods
<Skar> I figured since so few people can be these mythological races
<Skar> at the start
<Skar> and we want humans to populate the world at first
<Tikk|AFK> Indeed
<Skar> even if players found it
<Skar> they couldn't get it
<Skar> err in
<Tikk|AFK> thats another reason to keep the entrances outside the releasemap
<Skar> *nods* I think if we play our cards right and do a sick job on the world
<Tikk|AFK> its just.. the only place I se us placing the dwarven gates on the release map is... well.. the large mountain north
<Skar> and the ideas behind it
<Skar> we'll get 30 people quickly
* Tikk|AFK nods
<Skar> and then we can start working on the 1st expansion
<Tikk|AFK> It could come quickly
<Skar> yeah basically after we finish the 1st 'world'
<Skar> we should start working on the next section
<Skar> introduce the saxons
<Tikk|AFK> Just the western half of the map, the rest of "sweden" in the first expansion. Basicly, a very wild land, not much civilization
<Skar> and welsh and the mythological race
<Skar> races
<Skar> so just impliment the elder races then?
<Tikk|AFK> I know West will be bummed...
<Tikk|AFK> Thing is, he could still work on the Elven HQ
<Tikk|AFK> the town
<Skar> well we need to make tade offs
<Skar> yeah
<Skar> very true
<Skar> it will take ALOT of work
<Tikk|AFK> its just... we wont release the "entrance" untill later
<Tikk|AFK> yea
<Skar> forests are a pain in the ass
<Skar> cause you have to put leaves on individually
<Tikk|AFK> Mate, I have a prog that autogenerates forests when creating the map
<Skar> ooooo!
<Skar> that would be nice
<Skar> CenterED can create a forest without leaves
<Tikk|AFK> you can give specific input on whatever statics you want to add to a certain type of terrain
<Tikk|AFK> On my old shard, I had about 6 diff types of forests
<Skar> I tried to figure out if it could put leaves on trees but it doesn't seem like an option
<Skar> nice
<Skar> well then
<Skar> that makes things MUCH easier
<Tikk|AFK> Indeed
<Skar> West can make those forests in no time with that
<Tikk|AFK> All we have to do is pick what kind of statics we want in what type of forest
<Skar> can you work on the land shapes?
<Tikk|AFK> what do you mean?
<Skar> since we're up north pine trees
<Skar> birch
<Skar> things like that
<Tikk|AFK> sure thing!
<Skar> well I mean in the shard
<Skar> i made some of the larger landmasses
<Skar> but you're the expert in maps
<Tikk|AFK> On my shard, I had "pine forests" dense and normal - "mixed forest" dense and normal - "leaf forest" dense and normal
<Skar> so if you could go around and clean up and form those islands
<Skar> we can go behind you and put the coast lines in
<Skar> nice
<Tikk|AFK> Its even easier than that mate
<Skar> you got something else up your sleeve?
<Skar> *watches for rabbits and pigeons*
<Tikk|AFK> Once I have the map completed, it will be filled with static forests.. Coastlines will be perfect
<Tikk|AFK> Mountains will have their heights
<Tikk|AFK> everything will be ready, the prog is that good.
<Tikk|AFK> All we need to do is add/remove statics where we wish
<Tikk|AFK> and ofcause, build houses
<Skar> ZOMG
<Tikk|AFK> Most of the work on the actual basic map will be done through photoshop
<Skar> *creams his pants*
<Tikk|AFK> lol
<Skar> okay well then
<Skar> *cracks a whip*
<Skar> get to work!
<Skar> hahah
<Tikk|AFK> careful photoshopping saves loads of time
<Skar> I can't wait Tikk that sounds awesome
<Skar> you need to give me this program
<Tikk|AFK> Hold your horses
<Skar> that sounds sick
<Skar> *rears and kicks but steadies them*
<Skar>
<Tikk|AFK> We will have issues with transitions (grass to dirt) etc
<Tikk|AFK> but nothing as bad as on Grimmwold, I promise you that!
<Skar> of course the "fun" part
<Skar> its nice not having a developed world
<Skar> just lots of trees and hills and mountains
<Tikk|AFK> And no, NO, silly altitude crap... you know those "spires" we se all over Grimm.. like sharp needles in the terrain... nothing like that
<Skar> nice
<Skar> yeah CenterED did a horrible job when i tested mountains
<Tikk|AFK> I agree, makes for more of a mystery


<Skar> I really want dark nights
<Tikk|AFK> Thank you!
<Tikk|AFK> Me too!
<Skar> I would give up all other scripts for that
<Tikk|AFK> Agreed!
<Skar> you can do so much with it
<Skar> you enter a deep forest
<Skar> bam
<Tikk|AFK> Its the best feature in all of UO imo (well one of the best)
<Skar> lights turn out
<Skar> this is not important but we should make camping a useful skill
<Tikk|AFK> Tbh, if its possible, we should make the entire shard very "dark" when it comes to lightning
<Tikk|AFK> yea, camping, torches
<Skar> well I like time
<Tikk|AFK> you can even do RP backstabs with darknights on
<Skar> we should have 1 time for the whole shard
* Tikk|AFK nods
<Skar> yeah especially if we could turn off names on the screen
<Skar> names and darkness
<Tikk|AFK> that would be a dream
<Skar> return UO back before T2A
<Tikk|AFK> imagine... its completly dark. You hear footsteps.. but dont know where they are coming from
<Tikk|AFK> would love that
<Skar> I remember sneaking into Dastard one time and and I followed the PKers around but outside their torch range
<Skar> (they didn't have magic interestingly)
<Skar> so I just tagged along and looted stuff they didn't take
<Skar> hiding whenever they double backed
<Tikk|AFK> haha
<Tikk|AFK> those where the times
<Tikk|AFK> sadly, the older UO got, the more WOW it became :S
<Skar> yeah I couldn't figure that out
<Tikk|AFK> silly producers tbh
<Tikk|AFK> hm...


<Tikk|AFK> I was thinking...
<Tikk|AFK> Do you have the map infront of you? the latest one?
<Skar> *pulls it up*
<Skar> ok shoot
<Tikk|AFK> You know that large isle (the largest one) in the middle of the archipelago... that might be a good place to put a troll mound
<Tikk|AFK> or rather, I was thinking we could have mountain trolls too... "Berga troll" in swedish
<Tikk|AFK> ofcause, we should put some sort of NPC human settlement on the isle aswell
<Skar> sure
<Tikk|AFK> its large enough
<Skar> yeah I only know Tolkien's trolls
<Skar> so you guys are the experts
<Skar> in nordic trolls
<Tikk|AFK> Nordic trolls are well...
<Tikk|AFK> they have moss growing on their backs
<Tikk|AFK> The reason I ask is, I was thinking about adding a mountain on that isle
<Skar> *nods*
<Tikk|AFK> spanning from north to south
<Skar> sure thing
<Tikk|AFK> might be a good idea to have a few neat caves there, for exploration
<Skar> Only thing I worry about is if the trolls aren't tough
<Tikk|AFK> one of them might be a troll cave
<Skar> the vikings will just massacre them
<Tikk|AFK> They should be beasts imo!
<Skar> *nods*
<Skar> they should be destroyers of worlds but too dumb to know better
<Skar> ;p
<Tikk|AFK> Maybe we even have a "king troll" there, a legendary troll, controlled by a GM/seer
<Tikk|AFK> not actuly a king, but a serious badass of a troll
<Skar> so for the shard if a player makes a troll do we make their skin "troll"
<Skar> or do we make them a human
<Skar> color their skin
<Skar> and call them a troll?
<Tikk|AFK> I think for troll, we might use the Orge animation..
<Tikk|AFK> just a thought
<Tikk|AFK> or is there a troll one too?
<Skar> troll, ogre, ettin
<Tikk|AFK> Ah cool!
<Tikk|AFK> well I think we better use them instead
<Tikk|AFK> atleast for races that are so diffrent in morphology

<Skar> gah it's so cheap that you can train archery to GM but you can only train swords to 70
<Skar> :S
<Tikk|AFK> you can?
<Tikk|AFK> rofl
<Skar> yeah that's how i gmed archery in 2 days
<Tikk|AFK> Archery is way more effective from what Ive seen when fighting mosters
<Skar> just sat infront of a butte
<Skar> yeah it has the highest DPS
<Skar> and the monsters on grimm rape ass
<Skar> in CC
<Tikk|AFK> yea
<Tikk|AFK> thats something we need to change tbh
<Tikk|AFK> everything should be possible to battle in melee
<Skar> makes casters and archers invaluable in PvE
<Skar> well that's also why I like my quality > quantity
<Skar> we shouldn't have like grimm does with that ettin spawn
<Skar> where you kill literally 1000 ettins
<Tikk|AFK> For sure!
<Tikk|AFK> I hate that
<Tikk|AFK> its just silly
<Skar> you should run into an ettin (1-3) and it should be a tough fight
<Tikk|AFK> I agree


<Tikk|AFK> I have yet another idea
<Tikk|AFK> its about combat... but I do not se how we could possibly balance it
<Skar> ?
<Tikk|AFK> anyway, i'll give you a short summary
<Tikk|AFK> Basicly. I want to remove healing in combat
<Tikk|AFK> The hitpoints you have, you have to spend.. thats it
<Skar> well we could just make the reload time longer
<Skar> so you could use it once
<Tikk|AFK> There is no "apply hyperfast bandaid to get you back into the fight"
<Skar> but then it may take a long time to use again
<Tikk|AFK> My idea is, no bandaids at all! Not in combat
<Skar> there may be an option to turn on a "you are in combat and cannot use this skill"
<Tikk|AFK> No way to "insta heal"
<Tikk|AFK> Yea
<Skar> since some skills use that already
<Skar> so something to look in to
<Tikk|AFK> Instead, while we remove that... we add more, and I mean a lot more, hitpoints
<Tikk|AFK> You have say 300-500 hitpoints.. if you go below 100, perhaps time to withdraw
<Tikk|AFK> This would force attacking/raiding parties to alternate their "tank" in PvE
<Tikk|AFK> it would also force a good amount of Tactic in PvP
<Tikk|AFK> once you get low on hitpoints, you have a choise
<Tikk|AFK> stay and fight, or fall back and live
<Tikk|AFK> And there is a twist
<Tikk|AFK> it should be possible to heal "out of combat"
<Skar> I say we dump caps on skills and stats
<Skar> if we make them hard enough to gain
<Skar> and impliment age
<Skar> plus perma death
<Skar> no one would be able to get high enough
<Tikk|AFK> about that. yea in theory it would work great with humans
<Skar> it would also make some people who play alot be like the legendary vikings
<Tikk|AFK> but what about elves.. dwarves..?
<Skar> remember there aren't many of them
<Skar> and they are there for excellent RPers
<Tikk|AFK> Basicly, I like the way WOW implemented bandages. Impossible to do while being hit
<Skar> people who aren't all about rape pillage plunder
<Skar> so if we saw dwarfs running out of the mountains and blowing up the world which really goes against nordic myths we just boot them
<Skar> and say they broke the RP lines of those characters
<Skar> if they are attacked it would be awesome to see 1 dwarf in full armor holding a small passage on his own
<Skar> just beating back vikings from the halls of his ancestors
<Tikk|AFK> I do agree with that last statement
<Tikk|AFK> for sure
<Skar> so I think there may need to be some trust
<Tikk|AFK> the prob is, we have to enfore some serious restrictions and application requirements before we accept an "elder race"
<Skar> between players and us
<Tikk|AFK> we do not want the Danzi syndrome
<Skar> danzi syndrome?
<Tikk|AFK> Or even, the Victor syndrome.. one guy taking on an entire village
<Tikk|AFK> Thats why I like the idea of no healing whatsoever in combat
<Skar> yeah
<Tikk|AFK> once you are hurt, you better finish of your opponent or simply run
<Tikk|AFK> no running away, heal up, then come back
<Skar> well that's just it if a troll player RP'd going into the town to kidnap a person and beat off some weakling players and did a good RP job of it
<Skar> I'd allow it
<Skar> if he went into the town and just killed people for the hell of it
<Skar> we have a problem
<Tikk|AFK> Yea
<Skar> which is why I said from the beginning elder races require not just a long time playing with us
<Skar> but excellent RP skills
<Skar> and a excellent app
<Skar> I think the elder races have TONS of potential
<Tikk|AFK> I do too
<Skar> but we should also tread carefully
<Tikk|AFK> they will add loads of interesting stuff to the shard
<Tikk|AFK> But, going back to my "no healing" idea
<Tikk|AFK> what do you think=
<Tikk|AFK> ?
<Skar> yeah
<Skar> I think its fine
<Tikk|AFK> Hard to balance Id say
<Skar> if there's no caps in skills/stats it won't be
<Tikk|AFK> but it would make things so much more realistic
<Skar> just means people need to pick their fights
<Skar> you can't just go walk into a lich and try to fight it without some sort of plan
<Skar> or "hey guys lets go hunt the 1000 ettins" and know you will auto-win
<Tikk|AFK> Just imagine a PvE hunt... A party of 6 will have to rotate in order to kill one lich
<Skar> *nods*
<Tikk|AFK> one dude cant simply be healed and keep aggro
<Skar> and the items should be geared towards the difficulty
<Tikk|AFK> your main man will get beaten down, eventualy he has to withdraw. If you have a priest closeby, maybe he can "fix you up" somewhat
<Tikk|AFK> Indeed


<Skar> yeah
<Skar> it also makes healer priests worth it
<Skar> instead of mage spam
<Tikk|AFK> yea
<Skar> I liked the idea Grimm tried to do with splitting magic up
<Skar> so its not just a "I can do anything"
<Tikk|AFK> Once we implement magic, we should do the same.. but a LOT more strict
<Tikk|AFK> you cant do fire magic and healing magic at the same time
<Skar> well magic should be there from the start but insanely hard to get
<Skar> yeah I was thinking we could break down the skills
<Tikk|AFK> Basicly, only attainable through serious RP quests
<Skar> yeah - cause there were witches/druids/shamen etc. in norse myths
<Skar> rare
<Skar> but they exist
<Tikk|AFK> And if you ask me, we should say magic on our shard is evil, every person thinks its evil...
<Tikk|AFK> what we should have, as an alternative, is faith
<Skar> hmm
<Tikk|AFK> blessings from praying to Oden
<Tikk|AFK> Frey
<Tikk|AFK> etc
<Tikk|AFK> Freya even
<Skar> what would we use as 'prayer powers'
<Tikk|AFK> "spells" I guess
<Skar> so we need to split up the books early
<Tikk|AFK> but rather, it should only be avaliable while sacrificing something at an altar
<Skar> figure out how to get different spell books
<Tikk|AFK> not readly avaliable
<Tikk|AFK> Yea we need to do that
<Skar> I like the idea but I'm not sure how many spell books we can make
<Skar> just like skills
<Skar> I am not sure how many new skills we can make
<Skar> and if that is even hard
<Tikk|AFK> Im not sure we need spellbooks
<Tikk|AFK> It "think" its possible to script commands
<Skar> well the game needs to make a check if the player has the right spell
<Tikk|AFK> for example, we culd script a command like ".pray XYZ"
<Skar> the easiest way is keep the current checking script but split that up into different books
<Tikk|AFK> wich would bring up a meny that allows you to sacrifice items
<Tikk|AFK> and thus recive a longterm buff.. 1 hour for example
<Skar> hmm
<Skar> we'll have to ask Bulldog
* Tikk|AFK nods
<Tikk|AFK> What Im aming at is..
<Tikk|AFK> Magic should be rare, but does exist
<Tikk|AFK> but Faith is all around
<Tikk|AFK> the world is filled with it
<Tikk|AFK> It might be the old Norse beliefs
<Tikk|AFK> but also, the "church" of the Holy Roman Empire should have a diffrent faith, with diffrent gains
<Skar> you know what would be funny?
<Tikk|AFK> and they should consider "magic" to be herecy
<Tikk|AFK> and try to root it out
<Skar> if each faith has a end spell that you can only cast with gm
<Skar> it pages a seer
<Skar> to hear your prayer
<Skar> while not pheasible
<Skar> it would be hilarious
<Tikk|AFK> Yea!
<Skar> "Oh Odin I pray to you! Smite my enemies!"
<Skar> *Odin appears and tears the unbelievers a new asshole*
<Tikk|AFK> Then a badass crow shows up, smacking everyone around
<Skar> but if you cast it too many times you may anger the gods
<Skar> and get smited
<Tikk|AFK> Something like that would be awesome
<Tikk|AFK> After all, religion was a big part of viking tradition. We should implement it somehow. We should have magic too, but there should be a line between the two
<Tikk|AFK> Some things are magic, others are faith. Its a matter of what you bet your coins on
<Skar> well there's paladin spells, necromancy, wizard spells, ninjitsu
<Skar> so we have plenty to work with
<Tikk|AFK> Still, I think it could be a great RP tool to have them divided. Once we introduce the HRE, we have a huge oportunity to bring Crusades, Paladins, Holy Faith, necromancy etc
<Skar> *nods*
<Skar> make the HRE playable
<Skar> they make crusades against the unbelievers
<Skar> and believers (just cause they can!)
<Tikk|AFK> Yea!
<Tikk|AFK> Oh... hm.. what do you think about this idea
<Tikk|AFK> We might gain from having a separate forum for posting IRC logs
<Tikk|AFK> Many things we spawn in here simply does not make it into writing
<Tikk|AFK> might be a good idea to save them in their "unedited" state anyway
<Tikk|AFK> Like our conversation here. We touched upon atleast 4-5 subjects
<Tikk|AFK> A forum that is open to any "brainstorming" sort of.. Unedited.
<Tikk|AFK> Simple to post, hard to read. But still, we would still have the ideas posted somewhere
<Skar> well mIRC saves logs IIRC
<Skar> just a matter of getting them posted
<Tikk|AFK> yea, we could just post the logs in a thread